Looking for big saved games and consumption data

Shop Keeper

Date of registration: Jan 21st 2009

Monday, February 9th 2009, 7:55am

Hi, I was actually involved in the Ascaron community forums when Patrician III was first released internationally and helped refine the translation, and I thought it would be fun to make a gamefaqs FAQ for the game in English now that the game has been rereleased at GOG.com.

My corny spreadsheets on Production costs may still be circulating...

Anyway, I'm trying to figure out the formulas for how much a city will consume.

I think the following are the salient variables:

1) Size of the three economic classes in the town.
2) Whether the needs for a given product have been filled recently.
3) The season. (It seems people want more timber in the winter?)
4) The location. (Furs and timber are more needed further north?)

Obviously, if only 1 and 2 are important then it's a matter of looking at 3 or more cities of differing sizes that have no supply problems at all and then extrapolating the constants for each product per unit of population for each class via the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra.

For that it would to have a nice contest save with a fully supplied towns with populations of 10k, 20k and 30k. If anyone knows anything about calcing towns demand, I'd love to hear about it!

Thanks.

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Amselfass

Lord Mayor

Posts: 1,952

Date of registration: Jul 8th 2005

Location: Kiel

2

Monday, February 9th 2009, 10:29am

Welcome to the forum.

As for the consumption data you asked for:

Quoted

1) Size of the three economic classes in the town.

Yes, consumption is different for the three classes.

Quoted

2) Whether the needs for a given product have been filled recently.

Actually, that doesn't matter. Consumption of a certain good will always be the same, regardless of how much there is in the market hall. Only the price is influenced by the market situation.

Quoted

3) The season. (It seems people want more timber in the winter?)

True - the demand for furs and timber is increased by 20 % during winter.

Quoted

4) The location. (Furs and timber are more needed further north?)

No influence.

I think the table you're aiming to create does already exist (at least if I've understood you correctly).

Goods	Rich	Wealthy	Poor
Beer	22,750	45,500	22,750
Pig iron	0,000	0,000	0,000
Ironware	35,000	26,250	8,750
Furs	21,000	10,500	0,000
Fish	1,400	2,800	3,500
Meat	3,850	3,050	0,450
Grain	3,150	4,200	5,250
Spices	1,400	0,700	0,700
Hemp	0,175	0,105	0,070
Timber	2,800	2,800	1,400
Honey	17,500	8,750	1,750
Pottery	10,500	6,300	4,200
Leather	15,400	12,250	1,750
Pitch	0,000	0,000	0,000
Salt	0,350	0,350	0,350
Fish oil	17,500	12,250	3,500
Cloth	17,500	12,250	5,250
Wine	52,500	13,300	0,000
Wool	0,350	1,400	0,700
Bricks	0,035	0,035	0,000

Sorry if the name of one or the other good appears "translated" to you, I don't have the opportunity to check with the international version at the moment.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Amselfass" (Feb 9th 2009, 10:31am)

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Duke Leto

Shop Keeper

Posts: 9

Date of registration: Jan 21st 2009

3

Monday, February 9th 2009, 9:05pm

AHA!

OK, that looks to be quantity of Goods per thousand in that there table. (Richies eat bricks? I never knew that...)

So the last question is, in a well behaved city will the total population have each of the 3 classes in equal proportion? Also Winter for consumption is December January and February, Just like for the agricultural goods, right?

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Steersman

Merchant

Posts: 60

Date of registration: Dec 20th 2006

Location: USA

4

Tuesday, February 10th 2009, 2:48am

I never realized fur consumption rose in winter.

Now, where do goods disappear to when placed in the market, such as pitch or pig iron, if they are not consumed? And, heaven help me, I just don't want to think what is happening the the hemp ... :260:

The quantity in the marketplace affects contentment, and growth. Recent complete shortage of goods creates problems, especially for employment in your industries.

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Duke Leto

Shop Keeper

Posts: 9

Date of registration: Jan 21st 2009

5

Tuesday, February 10th 2009, 4:56am

Interesting side note, but Patrician is a Keynesian nightmare waiting to happen if the numbers I have above check out.

Basically, for a poor family of 4 to have all of its needs met costs it ~55 per week. If however Daddy is working as a Pitch squeezer or a Brickmaker or a Warehouse guard, His income is 7 per week, 6.3 presumably after the head tax. The same is true of many other professions, Grain farmers only come home with 16.33 before taxes, and only the big ticket item professions like Furmakers, Blacksmiths, Vintners and so on could hope to be middle class even with a two income household. This is especially true since I'm just assuming that all the variable production costs are wages, which seems a bit odd.

In other words aggregate demand is happening in the game even though nobody can possibly be producing enough income to support that demand, an you are taking out far more gol from the town than you are putting in. Granted, obviously the rich aren't working for you, women an chilren might be working in o jobs too, but the thing should be collapsing since the poor don't have the money to buy what you produce...

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Steersman

Merchant

Posts: 60

Date of registration: Dec 20th 2006

Location: USA

6

Tuesday, February 10th 2009, 2:14pm

The rich work too. At least in the game ... :giggle:

And all those captains and sailors earn a pretty penny, too; ever wonder just what activity they spend it on? Let's just say that in Victorian London, it was a leading part time occupation, and ever consider just what all those people wandering around the square are looking for, precisely ...

By the way, I usually lower the tax rate to 3%. Reaganomics.

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Duke Leto

Shop Keeper

Posts: 9

Date of registration: Jan 21st 2009

7

Tuesday, February 10th 2009, 10:15pm

Reaganomics would be decreasing the Land Taxes.

But even with all the girls hanging out with the sailors, there just ain't enough money going into the towns. Presumably craftsmen sell things to the contryside...

ANYWAY.

Does anyone know if in a healthy town the various classes settle into a fixed proportion? Luebeck is something like 2:4:7 in my game right now for Rich:Middle: Poor, whereas other towns of the same size seem more bottom heavy.

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Amselfass

Lord Mayor

Posts: 1,952

Date of registration: Jul 8th 2005

Location: Kiel

8

Friday, February 13th 2009, 5:03pm

Quoted

OK, that looks to be quantity of Goods per thousand in that there table.

Quoted

Also Winter for consumption is December January and February, Just like for the agricultural goods, right?

That's exactly it.

Patrician III does not stick to the laws of economics. The amount of money available to the towns and their inhabitants is infinite. Actually, it's more like a "black hole" principle: money is coming out of nowhere when you sell things and it disappears into nowhere when you buy them. Same goes for the goods itself - the total number of goods available in the Hanseatic League is not necessarily identical to what you and the towns themselves have produced.

Quoted

And all those captains and sailors earn a pretty penny, too;

Not quite, if you don't employ a captain on the ship, one of them earns two. :giggle:

Quoted

Does anyone know if in a healthy town the various classes settle into a fixed proportion?

The whole 2007 contest was about this topic. I think consensus was that there is indeed a fixed limit on the number of richies and wealthies, but the exact value for this hasn't been figured out.

The winning game had like 43 : 32 : 24.